Monday, April 5, 2010

Should Forge Have Bad Cards?

When I first started working on Forge I thought that it shouldn't have any "bad cards" because no one would use them. But after thinking about it, I decided that Forge should have every Magic card that it could support.

I thought that I could easily classify cards as good and bad but the lines get fuzzy very quickly. Sometimes a mediocre card might be good in a tribal deck or maybe that card is pretty good in one of Forge's "limited modes" like sealed, draft, or quest. If you are using all of the cards you probably wouldn't include many 3 mana creatures that are only 2/2 but they make up the backbone of most limited decks.

Winding Wurm is a good example. He is a 6/6 creature that costs 4G but also has an echo cost of 4G. (Echo means that you have to play 4G again on your next turn, so the total cost is 8GG.) Back in the day this card might have been used in a constructed deck but without trample he is a little weak. I happen to get him during a quest and he was amazing. Even though he didn't have any other abilities, he was a one man Godzilla. Winding Wurm is mediocre is some formats and exceptional in others.

This is also a good example of why I don't think Forge is costing Wizards any money. Most of the cards in Forge are not in print. Also, Forge enables players to use fascinating cards from Magic's long history like Winding Wurm, Ali from Cairo, and Skullclamp.

p.s.
I wanted to write an April Fool's column like, "Wizards is going to buy Forge" or "I got hired by Wizards" but I didn't want to be too stupid.

15 comments:

Carl said...

i think that there is no such thing as a bad card, since every card finds it's place in certain decks. it doesn't really matter if the card is good or not, as long as it's available and Forge can support them. the more the merrier eh? (atleast that's my opinion. i know programming Forge for more cards must be a DRAIN.)

i hope to see new cards soon. it's kinda hard to download decks when you can't get the full deck (i usually have 2-5 cards missing because Forge can't support them.)


more power!

Hetdegon said...

"Bad" cards are part of the MTG experience, and at times there is some possible card combo coming from seemingly useless cards...So it's not a bad idea to include an amount of "bad" cards.

DennisBergkamp said...

Yes, I agree... Forge should include ALL cards :)

Fran said...

I agree. I think that all magic apps would have all cards as possible.

As you said, some crapy cards can be the killer ones on some decks ;)

Best wishes

wololo said...

Well honestly it's difficult to be in favor of cancel when you can play counterspell...

Anonymous said...

Yes, you should put every single card in the game in this program. Just because you may not like a certain card doesn't mean that someone else won't. There are plenty 1/1 creatures that come out quick, then when a Crusade or Glorious Anthem come into play, they turn into powerful creatures. So yeah, start adding all the "crappy" cards so we can get your card count higher than magma's.

Rich said...

I always hear a lot of players say that some cards which are bad in constructed are great in limited. However this is only true because everyone is forced to use those bad cards. Moreso if someone opens a bomb pack in draft then that player has a serious advantage and the problem with the bad cards is just highlighted even more.

In the end after your done with your draft or sealed your left with a bunch of crap cards you won't play with or be able to trade and will just sit in your collection soaking up space. Now I don't believe that every card should be 5 stars but the game seriously doesn't need terrible cards like Mindless Null, or other cards which aren't terrible but are at the wrong rarity for their power (the new worldwake multikickable fireball, I'm looking at you).

For a virtual product there is no cost involved in using these bad cards, however it does tax the database more. I've noticed forge loading the deck editor MUCH slower now than it did a year ago.

Silly Freak said...

"However this is only true because everyone is forced to use those bad cards."

i think this is an essential effect in trading card games. some cards are always bad, because bad is not an objective scale. In an environment with lots of Time Walks, Time Warp will always be "bad". On the opposite, a deck without Time Walk would be unplayable.

You are of course right that these are essentially dead cards in a collection, but I don't think there's a way around it. We pay Wizards to entertain us, so they should do so. bad cards should be at least flavorful (Mindless Null clearly is) or exciting (thinking of One With Nothing).

Anonymous said...

Why would you not want to make as complete a magic experience as possible?

DennisBergkamp said...

Wow, One With Nothing is one bad card :) Maybe it could be useful with a card like Barren Glory...

I guess it's true performance decreases a tiny bit every time a card gets added, but I think it's worth it. The Deck Editor should only open slowly at the beginning anyway, next time it's opened all cards should be in memory already.

E-mannen said...

Somewhat required reading about bad cards in MTG:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr52

DennisBergkamp said...

I like how the reader named Lion's Eye Diamond as an example for a really bad card, but it's actually extremely powerful (and restricted in T1). Also it's worth like $40 :)

James said...

when i tried to ue the deck editor and looked for Knight of New Alara and Twincast and they aren't there.

James said...

sry for the double post but also noticed bant charm isnt in the deck editor either

Anonymous said...

im sorry this program is good and all, but you didnt add mercy killing??? thats just stupid. its perfect in an elf token deck when you run a playset of joraga warcaller in the deck. 1 joraga with 10 counters gives all elves +10/+10 and when you mercy kill a crappy elf besides joraga that is an 11/11, you just got 11 11/11 elf tokens lol